Overseas Pensioners Enjoy Winter Fuel Cash
Millions of pounds of winter fuel payments are being paid out to British pensioners living in warmer climes like Tenerife and the Mediterranean. Now the British government is being asked to review the benefit. Last year 30,000 payments were made to overseas residents, which cost the British taxpayer £8 million.
The tax-free payment is payable in November to most Britons over the age of 60. It was introduced in the winter of 1997-8 at a rate of £20 for a single person. Today, however, it has risen to £200 or £300 for someone over 80.
There has been a massive increase in the number of British pensioners opting to live abroad over the last few years.
All British pensioners who were eligible for the payment while still resident in the UK are still entitled to claim the money provided they live within the European Economic Area, which includes the 27 EU member states, as well as Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein.
Some in Britain argue that the benefit was introduced to ensure the elderly kept warm in the British winter where average temperatures fall to between 3C and 4C. They were never intended for pensioners in countries such as Spain where winter temperatures rarely drop below 11C.
If past experience is anything to go by, this winter will see yet another increase in the number of overseas residents claiming the benefit and the recent addition of Bulgaria and Romania to the EU will swell the numbers.
By far the largest number of benefits made to overseas residents are paid to pensioners living in Spain where the number of payments has risen from just over 5,000 in 2002-3 to more than 24,600 last year – at a cost of £3.9 million.
Alistair Carmichael, the Liberal Democrat MP for Orkney and Shetland, called on new Prime Minister Gordon Brown to review the payment to overseas residents living in warm climes. He said: “This is by anyone’s standards a substantial amount of money, which seems to defeat the purpose of the benefit being made available. The treasury should be looking in some way at how this issue can be addressed.”
A spokesman for the department of work and pensions said: “European Community law means that some benefits acquired in one member state must be paid to people when they move to another country within the EEA. The winter fuel payment is only paid to former UK residents living in the EEA if they qualified for it before leaving the UK. We must treat all those states equally and may not, therefore, make payments based on winter temperatures.”
totally agree with comments that fuel allowance should NOT be claimed by ex pats
I live in France and have done ...
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Comment by Daphne Hall on 8 August 2007:
yes, we live in spain and receive winter fuel allowance. We live in the mountains and regularly it snows. We light fires and use warm air con units on a daily basis. The winter fuel allowance was paid instead of a pension increase at the time.. Pensioners being hit again. What about the family allowance paid to the highest earners in the UK….of the terrorists with council houses etc etc.
Comment by Liz Blake on 13 March 2008:
My husband and I have lived in Belgium since we were married in 1988. My husband, (79) although he continues to pay his taxes in UK and receives his pension in UK, he has been told he does not qualify for the winter fuel allowance because he was not in receipt of it before he left the UK. Ok! the allowance was not in being when he left the UK, but why should he be penalised for that… ?
Comment by C.Davies on 4 September 2008:
I’m all in favour of stopping our cold weather payments, if the government will give us in return the right to vote on how much pension we should receive? I’m sure I would be able to struggle by on what they get instead of living it up on my derisory £460 a month. Or alternatively should they just change it’s name to John Lewis expenses. Perhaps in my younger days I should have become a terrorist I would be getting far more money now. How liberal are the Liberals it doesn’t matter what the temperature is if you get cold you get cold that’s it. Shouldn’t the MP be asking why an 80 year old needs more money to keep warm than a 79! instead of penny pinching at our expense.
Comment by G. Ackland on 13 October 2008:
We live in Brittany its just as cold here as it is in England why shouldnt we get our payment .
We both worked hard all our lives and paid our dues. We have wood fires and it now costs cut and delivered 200 euros per cord it has doubeled since we came here in 2001.
Comment by M Baker on 26 November 2008:
We live in the hills in Valencia and it can be bitterly cold in winter. We spend a lot of money buying wood for our woodburning stove which doesn’t adequately heat the whole house. We also buy bottle gas. I am still cold! We feel rightfully entitled to the allowance into which we paid contributions during our working lives.
Comment by Ann Mayhew on 28 December 2008:
I worked in the UK for over 44 years and yes did pay all my tax and why should I not be entitled to have a winter fuel payment even though we live in Spain it is still cold in the winter. You get no help from the spanish social not that I expect it as have not paid into their system but is the UK the only country that gives hand out as people arrive and not pay out to people who have paid all their dues???
Comment by John North on 12 January 2009:
We moved to France just before we both reached the neccessary 60 years old. We have been refused any payment at all. We do receive the UK state pension.
January 4th until it has started to thaw a little bit today has seen us in deep snow and just Saturday night the temp. dropped to minus 13.
Does that not qualify for cold? And as we have both paid our way into the UK tax etc. system for most of our working lives why shouldn’t we receive the payment.
John North
Comment by F White on 14 January 2009:
Sorry but if you do not live in the uk you should not get winter payments
Yes you have paid your taxes all your life but so have I and I am spending what money I have in the uk
You buy all your food -clothes and pay your heating bills to another country
We have had a really cold winter which started in November and is still going strong
You chose to leave you cannot have the cake and eat it.
Comment by l Sleightholm on 31 January 2009:
I think that F White’s comments are ridiculous, seems to be a bit jealous of the Expat community! If someone has worked hard in the UK all their lives and paid their taxes they should be entitled to the Winter Payments even if they choose to live abroad. I am nowhere near pensionable age but have been paying into the system for over 25 years and I think that pensioners whether at home or abroad are more deserving of assistance unlike 1000s of other people on handouts in the UK.
Comment by Matthew on 5 February 2009:
The UK does not have clear guidance over whether someone is resident or not resident even if you spend substantial periods abroad as an expatriate.
This is because HMRC need to establish that you have ‘left’ the UK for some ’settled purpose’ and this is not always easy to determine.
Generally, however if you spend more than 6 months in another country ie 183 days then you are normally resident in that country but HMRC will need to see sufficient proof and where there is a tax treaty in force between the two jurisdictions the tie-breaker rule will attempt to determine.
Take advice from a professional if you are at all unsure of your UK residency as simply declaring you are non-resident or are resident in the UK on a tax return form needs to be an informed decision and not always agreed by HMRC so subject to later challenge.
Matthew
Comment by Maureen Atherton on 24 April 2009:
F.White’s comments are sour grapes. As a British born Passport holder who has lived in Spain since 1983 I reserve the right to live where I chose and that is where it is best for my health. I paid my dues in the UK at a time when It was not possible to opt out of the system. I was paid a weekly wage from the age of 14 and my payments on a P45 were not counted towards the conpulsory payments made to the Government each week for my pension. I know nothing about pension Credits and I dont get the Heating Allowance from the UK or any other source. I had to buy my own Mobility scooter from a very low savings account,in 2004, after all, If I’ve lived on the proceeds of my house in the UK since 1983, with a pension since 1989 there’s not much left! I dont own property, I live in a rented apartment and I’m having a struggle to pay my rent. If these circumstances continue I will have to just walk out of my apartment on to a plane for the UK and park myself outside a DHS office and find out If I can be housed in a luxury Hotel and be kept totally by the Government I supported for 44 years. There will be others!!
Comment by Susie Reynolds on 27 October 2009:
Comment by susie 28th October, I worked as a teacher in the UK for thirty five years.Now i live full time in Brittany where the winters are long and cold. Due to the falling pound My pension has fallen in real terms. Despite this I have to pay tax in the UK where I no longer live. i support my own health here with health insurance so I take nothing from the UK. Currently I cannot afford to heat my house with wood as I cannot afford the spiralling costs so I have turned to a paraffin stove which is bad for my asthma. Ask F.White whether he feels justified in not only living off my meagre income. (In France anything less than 800euros a month is considered living in poverty and is therefore not taxed) but in denying me my rights over a heating allowance.
Comment by kathy orcott on 10 November 2009:
my husband worked for the same company for 45 years paying tax and NI, i worked for 35 years only stopping to have children. I also cared for my parents and my hubands parents without claiming attendance or carers allowance – my children both work and have never claimed dole neither have we. All of us paying in to the system. Mine and my husbands parents only had one child so they never claimed family allowance and also worked beyond the age of 65.we live in spain for 6 months and Uk for 6 months of the year. I feel we qualify for the winter fuel allowance no question about it based on the above. We can go back generations whereby none of us have ever sponged on the Uk, we paid our taxes and contribute now to the system as we pay tax in the UK -on our company pensions-
Comment by David Jose on 15 November 2009:
I worked and paid tax and NI for over 40 years I was never unemployed and never claimed any sort of benefit in the UK. During one of my overseas postings in 1971 I met and married a polish girl. She also worked in the UK for over 20 years. When we both retired under the age of 60 we moved out to Poland to look after her parents. We dont qualify for the allowance which is very unfair as our winter temperatures sometimes drop to -20-30oC. One benefit is that our house is built to a standard which can cope with these very low temperatures but it still needs heating Gas, Wood, Roof Panels our Winter heating bills use 25% of our income. I have many friends in the UK who recieve this very necsessary benefit but I dont think I will ever see it!!!
Comment by stan Bacon on 10 December 2009:
One should have the right to live anywhere in the world and remain a loyal british subject, just as i did when i was seving with tie royal signals in egypt in 1952.
god bless all those who give their lives in afganistan.
Stan Bacon Pensioner.
Comment by June Bamford on 16 February 2010:
I am so fed up with the continual winging of the Little Englanders, stirred up by the Media. I moved to Spain before the introduction of the Winter Fuel Allowance, note that it is an allowance not a benefit, therefore am not entitled to it. I worked as a nurse so my pension is still taxable in the U.K. The State Pension increased by a derisory amount, I´m not sure in which year, possibly 1998 or ´99, & the reason given by the government was because of the large increase on the Winter Fuel allowance.
Why does everyone think that people living abroad enjoy continual sun & warmth? I live near the coast on the Costa Blanca but the weather, in the winter, is very cold. Our homes are not insulated & it is nigh on impossible to do this; no Government assistance with insulation here even if it were possible. Very few homes have central heating & we rely on trundling around a gas heater. I have just managed to raise the temperature in my sitting room to 16C. Added to all this, the fall of the Pound against the Euro has the effect of cutting the value of our pensions by nearly 30% & Spain is no longer an inexpensive place to live, ask anyone who has been here on holiday recently.
It is reported that three quarters of the expat British are moving back to the U.K. & many of them because of the Benefits they can claim there. This will cost the British tax payer much more than paying the heating allowance to some of us. So stop complaining & support your fellow countrymen.
Comment by Leigh Scott on 17 March 2010:
In reposnse to June Bamford.
June if you chose to leave the country then you are not contributing any further to the economy.You still get the addded benefit from the government pension for paying your national insurance.With this in mind and given that you no longer appear to contribute to the british economy and leaving those who remain to deal with the economic problems why on earth should you benefit whilst piling your funds in to another country’s economy.You said it yourself, few homes have central heating and the government there gives you nothing, more fool you then.I am sorry but I have no sympathy for you whatsoever
Comment by graham Kendrick on 29 March 2010:
If you read June’s post again You will see that those of us that live abroad after retirement SAVE the uk money by not drawing pension credits etc. and with the pittance that the government jokingly calls a pension to spend (which we paid into all of our working lives) what funds do we “pile” into another country’s economy?
Believe me, if all the expats returned to Britain and drew all of the allowances that most pensioners do, Britain would be paying out much more than it does by giving us two hundred quid – which we have every entitlement to.
I am sure there are better things for you to complain about than a few pensioners getting back a tiny proportion of the money they have paid in national insurance all their lives. Try having a go, rightly, at the millions of pounds paid to illegal immigrants who have never contributed one penny to the british economy.
Comment by ian walker on 16 July 2010:
totally agree with comments that fuel allowance should NOT be claimed by ex pats
I live in France and have done for 10 years, I chose to leave uk and therefor gave up any uk benifits.
one cannot claim unemployment benifit from uk as the dept. say you are not living in uk therefore you are not entitled.
the same should apply to the winter fuel allowance, one is not living in the uk so one should not be able to claim a benifit from a country one does not live in.
It is costing the uk taxpayer £ millions which could be better spent elsewhere.
Fair enough claim fuel allowance whilst living in uk but once you move abroard then the allowance should be stopped.
The way round it is that providing the ex pat keeps open a uk bank account to which the allowance was paid into whilst in uk, move abroad but keep the account open and the payment is still payed into your account and no one is any the wiser !!
….
To add to my previous comments, why give to one and not the other?
if you moved abroard after 60 and had claimed fuel allowance, you still get it.
If you moved abroard before one reached 60 and therefore have not claimed the allowance you do not get it, once you reach 60 and are living abroard you cannot claim the fuel benifit …. why ?
This seems totaly unfair…. the govenment either gives to all over 60 or none !!